My Prediction Is That David C Pack Is (Still) a False Prophet

False prophet Balaam blesses the Israelites

According to Church of God News, “RCG’s David Pack declares that ‘three shepherds’ will die on August 30, 2013. Is Bob Thiel one of them?”  Rumors for a while have been circulating that David Pack is predicting three COG leaders will die “soon”.  I don’t listen to his sermons (I tried once, and it was torturous), but apparently he’s been making speculations and predictions for a while now.  However, we now not only have a date, but supposedly Pack knows the names of who will die on exactly 30 August this year.  Conveniently, he is not telling, though.  I’m not sure why, as there is no way he can now back out and not prove he is a false prophet!

He’s pretty much painted himself into a corner.  This is not just some casual speculation, either.  He is making an actual no-holds barred prediction, and he is tying it to a prophesy in Haggai.  According to the RCG website, Pack wrote about a COG reunification (italics his):

Recall that Haggai 1:14-15 states that “all the remnant of the people…came and did work in the House of the Lord of Hosts, their God, in the four and twentieth day of the sixth month, in the second year of Darius the king.” Elul is the sixth month in God’s sacred calendar. It is August 30 this year in the Roman calendar. Also notice that this date in Haggai does not reflect the pattern of the other three dates mentioned in that short book, dates that Haggai received a message from God. Rather, it describes an action that occurred on a particular date. And this particular date is consistent with people being reunited by the Feast of Tabernacles. (It is also consistent with other scriptures describing things GOD is going to do in a particular month, which you will learn more about in three and four weeks when these postings are projected to end.)

He goes on into some convoluted explanation about how he came to this date, he’s not setting dates for Christ’s return, etc.  He then states:

A final point before looking at reasons the prophecy is “on” for August 2013. As was mentioned in last Friday’s announcement, God has actually disfellowshipped His people—putting them out of the Church—“delivering them unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that their spirit might be saved” at Christ’s Return (I Cor. 5:5). Also read I Timothy 1:20. That God disfellowships people, usually through His ministers, should surprise no converted person.

Pack is referring to what he calls “the apostasy”, which to his account started in 1992 when the booklet God Is… was published.  In all honesty, though, I’m not convinced that many during that era were ever converted in the first place, let alone be “His people”.  Wheat and tares, after all.

He goes on to call leaders of various COGs “God’s enemies”:

On top of all this, brethren foolishly sent tithes to God’s enemies who were teaching them “damnable heresies.” The men leading PCG, LCG, UCG and COGwa are God’s ENEMIES! (You have actually read this in these announcements from Mr. Armstrong’s own pen.) God’s people assumed they were following faithful leaders when these men were in fact “evil men and seducers” who were growing “worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived” (II Tim. 3:13). Also weak and confused themselves, many ministers have been participants with false leaders over the groups. God must deal with these leaders—and you will see in a few weeks how prophecy reveals He will! For now, you at least know how soon this will happen.

It is obvious that Pack does not believe the words of Jesus:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Mk 9:38-41

There is a fine line between calling out false teachers and preaching against the Holy Spirit.

23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mt 12:23-32

The Pharisees were being warned by Jesus because they were attributing the work of God to Satan!  They were rejecting the work of God taking place before their very eyes.

In order for his “prophecy” to come to pass:

  • Three leaders of the splinters must die.  One will not work.  Two will not work.  Four will not work.  Two dying and one getting sick will not work.  Three must die.
  • They must be leaders, not underlings and not even second in commands.  IOW, we are talking people like Meredith, Thiel, Flurry, etc.
  • They must die on 30 August.  It cannot be on the 29th or the 31st.  It must be on the 30th.
  • While publicly he waffles on how they die, it is alleged in sermons, “I know how they die and who they are. I’m certain.”  Therefore, if they do not die by fire, it will be obvious that Pack is a false prophet.

I’m going to go out on a limb and predict this is not going to happen.  I’m not making a prophecy; it’s common sense.  Pack is full of himself (and perhaps something else), and I’m not afraid to state as much.  I’m not going to tip-toe around and say I’m lacking discernment over such an obvious matter.

However, even if this were to happen, I still would not follow him!  God makes something quite clear:

13 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods [anything that misrepresents God’s true character] , which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Dt 13:1-4

God makes it quite clear He wants His commandments kept, and Pack teaches against them, as do all the other liars who call others “Laodicean”!  I don’t mean the small stuff, either.  He teaches judgmentalism, calls good evil and evil good, and He teaches complete and utter obedience — to himself, that is.  It is quite possible that his narcissism clouds him seeing what he is doing, but at the deepest level everyone knows what they truly are, there just must be a pathology that prevents him from seeing it.  Worse, his stealing from those who cannot afford it in order to build physical monuments to himself is downright despicable.  God will judge him for his acts of wickedness, for Pack does not represent or obey the real living God, but rather Pack has created a god in his own image.  This is what God warns us against!

I’ll make a further prediction, however.  As Thiel asks, “Similarities to Ronald Weinland?”  Weinland predicted the deaths of many UCG ministers, which did not occur, but the puzzling thing is that anyone would continue to follow him after so many false prophecies.  I predict people will, for whatever reason or lack of reason, continue to follow and support Pack after his failed prophecy.

Why?  Why would people allow themselves to be so deceived?  Where is their discernment?  I don’t entirely know, but I do believe it has to do with the human problem of stubbornly refusing to admit when one is wrong.  Adam and Eve turned to blaming others rather than admit they were wrong.  The jig was up, but they could not bring themselves to admit they had trespassed against God’s command.  King Saul could not initially admit he had done wrong by offering a sacrifice instead of waiting for Samuel.

The irony is that God’s way of life requires admitting we have done wrong.  It is called “repentance”.  Supposedly, we all did it before being baptized.  Supposedly, we do it every day.  And yet, have/do we really?  It is up to each of us to honestly face and answer that question if we are truly to be saved.

Sanctification is the ongoing process that started before baptism.  Baptism is simply formal acceptance of Jesus Christ as Savior and God the Father as Supreme King, but it comes after repentance.  However, we are not instantaneously transformed into spirit beings, are we?  We spend the rest of our lives learning our faults and overcoming.  That means repentance is not just a one time event!

Someone on Facebook today reacted to my observations about this current world.  You know, we are to witness the events and mishaps of this world so we can be better leaders in the World Tomorrow.  We must learn what not to do!  We must examine ourselves and ensure we are not being infected with the same attitudes and false morality that surrounds us.  We must examine ourselves to see where we deceive ourselves.

We are called to come out of the Babylon of confusion that is the religious landscape of today!  That includes the false COG teachers such as Pack, Flurry and Weinland!  Do we have the humility to do what is right?  Do we have the guts to do what is right?  We cannot use the excuse that, “The ministerial leader whom thou gavest to be over me, he gave me of the tree, and I did eat”!

13 thoughts on “My Prediction Is That David C Pack Is (Still) a False Prophet

  • Sl Ross on Facebook

    Agreed. He joins a long line of false prophets who have preceded him and still share real estate with him even now, unfortunately.

    It makes Hebrews 5:12-14 even more urgently relevant to us in making sure we are spiritually maturing and are able to discern what is spiritually sound and true and what is not (the filter, the standard must always be God’s word alone – it must be implanted in us so we have it readily available at all times) and whether the fruits are the fruits of the Spirit or the fruits of the works of the flesh.

  • John D Carmack on Facebook

    It always comes back to discernment, doesn’t it? For proper discernment, we need: 1. A love of the truth (required!), 2. A willingness to dig into the Scriptures, the word of God, and 3. The Holy Spirit to open our eyes, mind and heart.

  • Sl Ross on Facebook

    Discernment is always the bottom line, John, and the three ingredients you identified are critical to proper spiritual discernment. If any of those three is missing, any of us can be deceived.

  • Alex

    I would suggest that one of the primary reasons Dave Pack is not a true prophet or apostle is the same reason many of the men in the COGs are off: They are breaking God’s Sabbath day, and very many of them (including Pack) have been confronted with the issue and have continually rejected correction, favoring the traditions of men.

    The question is: If one can’t even discern the myriad BASIC reasons why eating out on the Sabbath is wrong and continues to break it on a near-weekly basis — in such a BASIC part of keeping the fourth commandment (not having others work for us)… how on earth can we expect any of these men to truly have in-depth God-revealed discernment of biblical prophecy? It just doesn’t compute.

  • Norbert

    “Why would people allow themselves to be so deceived?”

    I think what happens is an event such as a failed prediction gets put into a person’s private scale of making judgments for themselves. There are other reasons why people choose to align themselves with people like Pack/Weinland. When those other things are loved so much and are more crucial to their own personal identity, they can ignore the failed prediction on the other side of the scale.

    • John D Carmack
      John D Carmack Post author

      @Norbert: Yes, that is why the love of the truth must prevail. “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved” (2Th 2:10).

      Still, I think the human propensity to not admit one is wrong or at fault comes into play here. I suppose, though, you could argue that simply means that one loves their ego more than the truth.

  • Andrew

    John, as far as I can tell, Pack has not said when they will die.

    What he has said is that all the remnant of God’s people will unite under him on August 31 and the leaders will be killed by then. In fact in a recent statement, he’s said that it is not his place to say “who”, “when”, or “how”, just that it will happen. He also said recently that it will certainly not be on the last day (Aug 31), but probably before then.

    So just a minor bit of corrections on your post in terms of the checklist.

    • John D Carmack
      John D Carmack Post author

      @Andrew: According to the Thiel article, he received an email from a (soon to be ex?) follower of Pack that: “Three…leading shepherds are to die by Fire on August 30, 2013- six weeks from now. He walks this out, then walks this back seemingly every sermon. He is not surmising, musing, he clearly has prophesied this and so I an many others await Aug 31. He listed 20 of 40 of so reasons why it has to be this year in Part 14 two weeks ago.”

      Thiel asked some questions, and then in a follow-up email, some sermon notes (emphasis mine): “How could so many things happen in 24 hours?
      “Minute 26. Three men die- Elul 24, then everyone makes a decision that day.”

      • Andrew

        I won’t defend Pack. The man is a lunatic. But everything I’ve read (and I’ve avoided Thiel, to be honest), has never cited dates on the deaths and rather stated what I said above.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s walking it back or saying things in such circles that people aren’t clear. But I do know at least he’s said what I’ve indicated… which means nothing in the long run. The man is still an insane narcissistic false prophet in the end.

        • John D Carmack
          John D Carmack Post author

          @Andrew: And likewise, I am not in the habit if defending Thiel. However, he does do his homework, even if we would disagree on the interpretation of the evidence at times or even the source of some of which he gets his ideas. Regardless, we will know in a month, when the churches are still splintered and should anyone die between now and then it is because of natural causes.

          If I were Pack, I’d be walking very circumspectly. The Bible is full of examples where those who should have known better ran into some pretty humbling experiences after speaking against God’s people.

  • Big Red
    Big Red

    Boy, did Pack send a roil through the Cog groups, or what. People wiggling their finger under their nose, going “pffff… the guy is a lunatic”. At the very same time, they wax ‘serious’ and provide ‘logical’ reasons why it’s still false, just in case it does happen. Talk about covering both possibilities! And of course, Bob Thiel thinks it’s all about him (vain self-appointed ‘prophet’ that he is).


    • John D Carmack
      John D Carmack Post author

      Big Red wrote: “At the very same time, they wax ‘serious’ and provide ‘logical’ reasons why it’s still false, just in case it does happen. Talk about covering both possibilities!”

      Because following a lunatic is never logical. Nor is doing what the Bible says illogical. I’ve already proven Pack is one portion of the synagogue of Satan, so following him is following Satan. Nothing illogical about it.

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