5 Responses to “Biblical Grounds for Disfellowshipping”

  1. maiuuislandgirl says:

    John…you are right about reasons for disfellowshipping a member of God’s Church..it is indeed a serious matter and one that God holds both parties accountable for..to get back to Ed Oliver..it is hard for me to understand why he would even WANT to attend a group that he feels, according to his beliefs, is wrong in the dates of all the Holy Days, Passover , and definitely wrong in the way that Sabbath is kept..not only going out to eat, but not meeting in certain types of building ie schools, granges and others also not allowing the management to provide a clean room to meet in or coffee and water to be provided..or clean-up afterwards..the brethren there vacuum and clean up every Sabbath..apparently that’s ok because it’s unlawful to make the hotel to work. but besides all of that..why would he want to sit in a congregation where the minister, in his opinion, is wrong spiritually.. do we not assemble before God to be taught and fed spiritually.. would not personal integrity dictate that he leave that congregation rather than sit and listen to wrong spiritual messages..is that not why we, all ministers and brethren alike left WW..and now 2/3’s of the ministry left UCG ( because integrity of doctrine did not equal to personal integrity..behavior and conduct) IMO, if Ed felt that strongly about being correct in his beliefs 1. he would not subject himself and his family to this atmosphere of wrong teachings and 2. he would have quietly left without causing division and dissension in this congregation..instead he sent a letter to the brethren.. frankly his claim to not speaking of his beliefs fly in the face of this behavior and IMO, scripture.. also the using of the scripture in 1Pet3: 15 is talking about people outside the fellowship of God’s church as referenced in the margin by Psm 119: 46.. anyway..I am having a difficult time with understanding his actions in light of all the scriptures about unity and one mind.. this is of course, my opinion.

    • John D says:

      @maiuuislandgirl: I do not know. Perhaps that is the closest church that comes the closest to his beliefs? In the end, though, what ever happened to the idea that the doors are open to those who want to worship in peace? Don’t forget that, allegedly at least, he was asked to not come before sending that letter. He sent the letter, again allegedly, in order to explain why he was not there.

  2. maiuuislandgirl says:

    John ..do you honestly think that it is better to sit in a church that you totally disagree with doctrinally , than it is to stay at home or find a church that is in line with what you feel is spiritually correct? you say ” perhaps it’s the closest church that comes closest to his beliefs” and I ask you..is this honest..is it an action that is motivated by personal integrity? When did attending church become a matter of convenience ? You see, IMO..this matter has moved out of the ” I’m right , you’re wrong” sphere. ..now it has moved into the area of ” what should my response be, given the fact that Christ has set an example for me to follow”..If Ed feels “wronged” should he try to set right? and if he tries, what are the ramifications of this action? What will be accomplished in the end? It has been reported by a UCG minister, that there is a congregation of this mindset in Eugene. and have actually invited Ed to speak to them…so there is a place that he could go if he chose to.. where like-minded brethren gather. As far as the alleged ” before or after” I can’t speak to that, but what I do know is that unity and division was at the uppermost part of COGaWA’s ministry’s mind.
    the ” open door ” policy….frankly, I have never agreed with that, and here’s why…IMO, if it is used by brethren to to try to find a home congregation I’m ok with that..unfortunately this policy has generated an attitude of ” no commitment” to any church, just an attitude of ” we’ll come” ( when it’s convenient., or something special is happening) producing a “floating” from one congregation to another.. one COG to another..no roots, no bonding , no like minds or unity..In UCG, we see this as a big problem. anyway..these are only my opinion of course

    • John D says:

      maiuuislandgirl wrote: “John ..do you honestly think that it is better to sit in a church that you totally disagree with doctrinally , than it is to stay at home or find a church that is in line with what you feel is spiritually correct? you say ‘ perhaps it’s the closest church that comes closest to his beliefs’ and I ask you..is this honest..is it an action that is motivated by personal integrity?”

      To answer your last question first, “Yes”. However, your first question is bogus, and you know it. “That comes closest to his beliefs” means he is not 100% in disagreement, which is what “totally disagree” means.

      Obviously, you feel the same way.

      “the ‘ open door ‘ policy….frankly, I have never agreed with that”

      Is this an action motivated by personal integrity then? After all, that is part of what they are saying and doing, and that too is doctrine, whether it is called that or not. By your own logic, it is time for you to find a new church home, huh?

      Seriously, are any of us ever 100% in agreement on doctrine? They weren’t even in Paul’s day! So, why do we act all surprised when it occurs today?

      As far as integrity goes, it takes more integrity, IMO, to attend services according to the commandment than to sit around at home contrary to Scripture.

      You see, I don’t get to choose what you will take exception to, and you don’t get to choose what I will take exception to. If I find a doctrine so out of whack that I must stay home, or if I find a congregation’s attitude so offensive that I must stay home, then someone has more problems than just doctrinal issues, IMO.

      Your previous comment puzzled me, but the last comment makes it clear that you are from that area. You have a lot of questions. You say there are a lot of things you do not understand. Maybe that’s because you don’t know the whole picture. Maybe you need to do a Matthew 18 and go to him in private if it really bothers you so much. If you really are from that area, you probably have an old bulletin with his number on it. If you are not from that area, then maybe you’re making a lot of assumptions that simply are not true.

      Either way, I don’t understand the obsession or the public airing of dirty laundry against one individual. That is what the COG critics do. They accuse and attack without compassion and without all the facts. I suggest you use God’s Spirit and do the right thing.

  3. Big Red Big Red says:

    I think both you and Island Girl made some good points.

    Look, if you want to attend services at a COG group that you have certain disagreements with, I don’t see a problem with that. As long as you show proper respect and civility. Whether they have an open door policy or not, you should still contact the minister. And if regular members start asking you questions during fellowship, just tell them the truth. That you have some disagreements, but that you appreciate their hospitality, and thank them for the opportunity.

    But if you just want to sit in the back row, bite your nails, and grumble out loud, so everybody can hear, then what are you doing there? Unless you’re just trying to make trouble? In that case, maybe you should be told to leave.

    (I’m using the word “you” in a rhetorical sense).